UN rights chief: Ignoring global challenges stokes populism

Activists attend a protest at the United Nations Climate Change Conference COP29 in Baku, last week. Poorer nations say the funding agreed at the summit falls way too short of the needs of developing countries that are unfairly bearing the brunt of climate change. [EPA]

The indifference of political elites toward those most vulnerable to the effects of globalization has led to the rise of populism, Volker Turk, the UN’s high commissioner for human rights, told Kathimerini. Turk, who was in Athens recently for high-level meetings, raised the issue of the lack of funding for the UN, which prevents its smooth operation.

What was the reason for your visit? Is it connected with the state of human rights in Greece? 

I was invited by the Greek government to visit Greece. First, Greece is going to become a member of the Security Council next year for two years, and human peace and security matters and human rights go hand in hand. And I hope for very close cooperation with Greece during its tenure as a Security Council member. Greece plays an important role also in the Human Rights Council. For me it was very important to have discussions about the impact of austerity measures on human rights, for example. I launched last year the concept of a human rights economy because we saw also after Covid that countries in the global South suffered enormously because of liquidity issues and debt repayments.

So, in Greece, this has a double meaning because it’s not only Covid; it’s also the austerity bailouts of the previous years.

Yes, correct. So for me, it was interesting also to see the disadvantages of austerity measures when they are being negotiated without taking into account the impact that they have on vulnerable groups, on the poor. The fact that, from one day to the next, your life can change because of macro-fiscal decisions.

You also discussed migration.

Of course, this is the big issue that Greece has been in the middle of. I know from my own history, because I was one of the deputies in the UNHCR and I came many times to Greece during that period, in particularly after 2015. The issue is always how do you ensure that the national system is well equipped to deal with the challenges, while at the same time getting solidarity from the European partners. And I’m afraid that the challenges are still the same. You know, reception, processing of asylum, claims of integration, but also making sure that European solidarity is there. Of course Greece is at the forefront of the European Union and it is facing challenges. It is also important to ensure that we learn the lessons when things go wrong, for example, [the deadly 2023 shipwreck 80 km off] Pylos: It’s important to see what happened, not just for Greece, but also for Italy and other countries, and to see that it doesn’t happen again. And I think that we didn’t have similar cases in the last year.

What is the humanitarian discussion about Gaza and Ukraine? There has been some criticism of the UN by Israel about Gaza, and by Russia, about Ukraine.

It’s very important that we are able to do our job. What does this mean when it comes to human rights? It means establishing the facts. It means – and that goes both in relation to Ukraine and the impact on civilians, but also to what has happened in Israel and Gaza – applying the law because we have very clear normative frameworks, human rights law, international humanitarian law and the law of war, which is 160 years old. If you have established facts and you apply the law, you come to conclusions. And when we publish these conclusions, it is part of my job description that you get criticized by everyone. And yes, of course you get criticized by Russia, you get criticized by Israel. I sometimes get criticized by Palestinians. I get criticized by everyone. But that’s part of the job description.

Is it a bad time for multilateral institutions in general?

I think of the world with all the challenges we face. Look at Greece: Temperatures have gone up, we have wildfires, forest fires, hotter temperatures, we have less rain. It is obvious that the world, the planet is suffering, and it is impacted by climate change. The climate crisis is not far away, it is here and now. You have the issue of migration, refugees, you have the issue of wars. We have the issue of plastic pollution, of biodiversity. All these issues are not consigned to one country. They are international. So, it’s obvious that you need international solutions. We saw it during the pandemic. It was clear we needed the World Health Organization to do its job. We needed the other parts of the UN system to do their job. And what we see today is a policy where you put your head in the sand and you pretend that these problems don’t exist and that you don’t have to find a solution. And we – from the United Nations and my own role – have to constantly point out that we need more multilateralism. We need more cooperation, more understanding. And instead, you have a tendency in some countries, and a rhetoric that their country comes first. So its basically a “me first” mentality. So it means that we lose solidarity. We need fundamental values, to act in solidarity with others. And we lose the sense of compassion. We see it in wars, where the suffering of the other person is not seen. So it’s clear that we need a wake-up call that this is not the future. Because the future is more cooperation, is more compassion, it’s more solidarity, it’s less narcissism, it’s less egotism. It’s more coming together and working together on issues.

Do you think that part of the crisis is due to the fact that the so-called victims of globalization were not taken seriously?

They were not taken seriously. I think the political classes in many parts of the world did not take them seriously, and did not support those who lost their jobs. And losing your job is grave. And at the same time, prices went up. After Covid we saw inflation going up. Housing is becoming less affordable for people and this creates mistrust and anger that populists use because they pretend that they have the answers. Of course they don’t, but they pretend to have them. And it’s easy to use anger and grievances and feelings of neglect for these purposes. So it’s frankly a wake-up call for all political forces because politics is, at the end of the day, about finding solutions for the people. But I hope that politics is going to be informed by human rights, because you cannot separate them from it.

I don’t know if while in Athens you discussed the Greek minorities in the region, like the minority in Albania or in Turkey. Was that also part of the discussion?

We discussed human rights generally. The legal framework on the protection of minorities, whether they are national, religious or ethnic, is very clear. There are very clear standards on specific measures to respect the language, the culture, cultural affiliation and religion. We see that in many countries around the world, if you do not protect minorities, it can lead to conflict. So promoting the protection of minorities is also a good investment to prevent conflict and violence.

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